If this is really an availability issue, once again Apple has screwed up. Although it's nice to see high demand for Apple products, it's tiresome to see that once again, they are terrible at predicting adequate supply.

There are rumors about that Target is simply discontinuing because they don't want to accept those coupons for 10% off that's floating around the web.

I wondered if they would get away with the discount... guess not.

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iggyb wrote:
If this is really an availability issue, once again Apple has screwed up. Although it's nice to see high demand for Apple products, it's tiresome to see that once again, they are terrible at predicting adequate supply.

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AFCdtLoeb wrote:
Well, as strange as this may sound, Apple may be controlling the demand just as they did with the Mini and Sony did with the PS2. Don't want to flood the market too early.

Well, lets say Apple has the capability of making two hundred a day (just talking hypothetically.) They estimate immediate sales of ten thousand units. Now, if they released it and it tanked and sold five hundred, they'd have a warehouse full of Minis. They immediately crank up production to maximum, but it'll take them a while to reach equilibrium. Remember, this is the offspring of the Cube, which did tank.

Maybe by creating a certain amount of shortage they are throwing gasoline on the market fire. Like the feeding frenzy for the must have Christmas toy that is hard to find.

However, I am wondering if Target, being the new kid, is not getting the shipment priority of the more established dealers.

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iggyb wrote:

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AFCdtLoeb wrote:
Well, as strange as this may sound, Apple may be controlling the demand just as they did with the Mini and Sony did with the PS2. Don't want to flood the market too early.

Why would Apple want to do that? I'm not challenging, I just don't understand why they wouldn't want to set the market on fire...

Sorry iLemmings, no 10% discount for you. Apple's monopoly on its proprietary hardware (notice Apple killed the Mac clones) means no discounts. Like Apple was going to allow Target to offer a lower price than the Apple stores.

Apple illegally forces all Mac resellers not to offer discounts on new Macs, except for maybe $1 or $2 to give the ridiculous illusion that there's no price fixing.

Haha who cares? The discount already pushed a ton of people over the edge that were thinking of getting a mini. More soon to be Mac users! Plus this is just 1 of the endless stream of publicity items about the Mini. It's a great time for Apple!

I was at two Apple stores in the Chicago area (Oak Brook and Michigan Avenue). The Michigan Ave. store was sold out completely on Monday, but they expected more in later this week. The Oak Brook store was sold out of the faster model, but still had the 1.25 in stock (as of Sunday).

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AFCdtLoeb wrote:
……Remember, this is the offspring of the Cube, which did tank.

What are the chances that Target will continue to sell the mini later? I would sure like to see a company like Target selling the Mac mini.

I used to think the accusations of Apple intentionally making their products scarce at roll-out was just superstition, but I'm beginning to think they may in fact do this on purpose. Just think about it - every major new product in recent memory has had this problem: G5 towers, iMac G5s, iPod mini, iPod shuffle, Mac Mini.

Yeah, I know they're selling a boatload, but something's rotten in Denmark.

Why all the conspiracy theories? From what I hear, the discounts meant that Target was selling them for less then they were paying for them.

Who here thinks that's a GOOD idea for target??

I'm sure they'll be back once Target finds a way to make the price stick at what they want it to be.

As usual, our friend RC operates on rumor and speculation, rather than the facts. While this makes his posts somewhat entertaining, they are far from accurate. You can get discounts at the Apple Store for Education or the Apple Government Stores plus the Special Deals section of the Apple Store. And if you work for a big company, you may be part of Apple's Corporate Employee Purchase Program. And from what I recall, Apple also has a "friends and family" discount program for their employees, where there can get a certain amount of Apple products at a discount.

My guess is that RC isn't involved in any educational or government work, and would certainly not have any friends that are Apple employees, so sorry RC, looks like you'll have to pay full price!

Yes, Apple has a different set of fixed prices for education, government, and its employees, but does not allow price competition in any market, all resellers are required to keep prices high.

Challenge: Show me a link that offers new Macs to the public for less than the Apple store. You can't, except for a few meaningless bucks off to skirt the legal problem of price fixing.

If I buy an iPod at Target, and apply for their visa card--I get the 10 percent off all my purchases that day. Why would the Mini be any different? Sorry RC, you lose again.

Also, I get a 10% discount on Macs through a large employer purchase program at work (and I don't work at Apple).

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RealityCheck wrote:
Yes, Apple has a different set of fixed prices for education, government, and its employees, but does not allow price competition in any market, all resellers are required to keep prices high.

Challenge: Show me a link that offers new Macs to the public for less than the Apple store. You can't, except for a few meaningless bucks off to skirt the legal problem of price fixing.

There's a survey at apple that asks about your experience at an Apple retail store. Fill it out and get emailed a 10% off order of $100 or more at a walk in Apple retail store. My only problem is, Macmini for brother, or shuffle for self.

http://www.apple.com/retail/feedback/

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RealityCheck wrote:
Apple illegally forces all Mac resellers not to offer discounts on new Macs, except for maybe $1 or $2 to give the ridiculous illusion that there's no price fixing.

Guys the $ symbol is not percent. It's $10. Cool if you're buying an iPod shuffle, not a big deal if you're getting a dual 2.5.

It's a very common practice in retail (clothing, home products, electronics) to impose MAP-- Minimum Advertised Price with retail outlets. Essentially, if a retailer agrees to MAP pricing, the product company (Apple, Tommy Hilfiger, etc) helps supplement the retailer with advertising dollars. It's the way that product companies avoid their products being put on "fire sale" right out of the gate. Go to any big retail store that sells multiple products (Best Buy, Macy's) and then go to the Brand stores (Apple, Levis, Izod) and you will see "amazing" symmetry between the product prices. This is not price fixing, it's totally legal, and it's common practice to get everyone to "play along" together.

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RealityCheck wrote:
Yes, Apple has a different set of fixed prices for education, government, and its employees, but does not allow price competition in any market, all resellers are required to keep prices high.

Challenge: Show me a link that offers new Macs to the public for less than the Apple store. You can't, except for a few meaningless bucks off to skirt the legal problem of price fixing.

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Anonymous wrote:
There's a survey at apple that asks about your experience at an Apple retail store. Fill it out and get emailed a 10% off order of $100 or more at a walk in Apple retail store. My only problem is, Macmini for brother, or shuffle for self.

You certainly keep a close eye on what Apple does and stay informed on the specifications of new products (more so than normal PC users). Is there an Apple store in your area? Once you get the one you like, please let us know what you are using it for. By the way, what is current computer/OS that you are using?

Notice that RC changed his tune. He first claimed that there were no discounts available on Apple hardware. After being proven wrong, now he's insisting on proof of a retail discount. After being proven wrong on this point, he'll no doubt come up with another condition, in hopes of proving that Apple is concentrated evil and should give away their products for free. It isn't like they're trying to make money or anything...

Here are a few places where you can find out about special deals on Apple and other hardware. I don't have time to go into details, but suffice to say that you can pay less than Apple retail if you do enough research:

Froogle
Deals on the Web
Overstock.com

Why does RC lie all the time? Is he that afraid of Apple?

Dear RC

First let me start by admitting that I don't fully understand the kicks you or anybody get from trolling in Mac-discussion boards such as this one.
What I do understand and appreciate however, is the need for any Mac-discussion to have a qualified and informed counterpart to keep us all at a safe and sound distance from the notorious "reality distortion field" of Mac-hype. I truly believe that the TMO-forums could benefit from a "devils advocate" representing the other side, which is Windows/PC.

However it would take a lot more than just namecalling and rigid denial of facts to fill those shoes.
I have been following your rants about anything Apple in here for well over a year now, and it just makes me wonder: WHAT are you trying to achieve?

Of course you're free to believe that Windows is a much nicer and welldesigned OS than Mac OS X, just as you are equally welcome to think that a Dell PC is a better built quality than an Apple computer, and that Microsoft is an all together nicer and more innovative software company than Apple Inc. Please go ahead.

But it would make for a very nice change if you would just get your facts straight before you start rambling, or at least come up with some sort of justified argument to back up your claims and accusations.
Simply denying the obvious really doesn't cut it in the long run.
In case you still don't know which kind of "discussions" I'm referring to, it's the typical "TMO vs. RC discussions" that go something like this:


TMO-user: The iPod is a huge succes for Apple
R.C.: No it's not. The iPod sucks!


Denial and dismissing the obvious. I don't see it leading anywhere, do you?


More often than not, your opinions are based purely on a blind distaste for anything Apple or they are based on claims that are factually wrong. Facts that you could easily have obtained yourself prior to your posting ... had you cared to do so.

It is my sincere wish that you either "upgrade" your qualifications as a troll in these forums for a more enlightened debate to the benefit af us all, or you simply realize that you don't know what you're talking about, and leave it at that.

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Guest wrote:
Why does RC lie all the time? Is he that afraid of Apple?

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RealityCheck wrote:
Sorry iLemmings, no 10% discount for you. Apple's monopoly on its proprietary hardware (notice Apple killed the Mac clones) means no discounts. Like Apple was going to allow Target to offer a lower price than the Apple stores.

Apple illegally forces all Mac resellers not to offer discounts on new Macs, except for maybe $1 or $2 to give the ridiculous illusion that there's no price fixing.

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Garion wrote:

TMO-user: The iPod is a huge succes for Apple
R.C.: No it's not. The iPod sucks!

Actually, they're more like this:
TMO-user: The iPod is a huge succes for Apple
R.C.: I hate to break it to you iLemmings, but the iPod has to be charged and can't run forever. Looks like you bought a defective product[/quote]

Gotta hand it to you, It bears an uncanny resemblance! *lol*
Hmm .. are you RC's ghostwriter or something?

The Cube tanked because it was more expensive than a tower and had no expansion. Had Apple priced the Cube more appropriately it WOULD have sold like hot cakes.

The Mini is small, cool and cheap. Apple should have known that these would be selling like mad. Just another in a long line of production miscalculations.

BTW: Apple needs to get a clue on this... This REALLY pisses off business/enterprise customers which they use as another excuse not to buy Macs...

Bravo.......bra..effing..vo!

I have to agree with the PS2 theory. They are trying to publicize the Mac mini. They also were a bit worried it would tank i would say... but i agrre the only reason the cube tanked was because it was so expensive.

By the way RC do us all a favor... don't post

Before Christmas, Amazon.com was offering iMac G5 20" for 1894.99, compared to 1899 at apple store. $4, or so, isn't anything significant. They did, however have a $100 rebate, which means they came in $105 under apple's price for that model. I know about this because I've just deposited my rebate check.

Checking on it, they're still offering those rebates.

So, here's the link requested (for the iMac G5 17", just as an example):http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002OG6OI/qid=1107211718/br=1-2/ref=br_lf_pc_2//103-6041549-6900626?v=glance&s=pc&n=13630081

1494.99 price, $100 rebate = $104 off of apple's price. Retail offer, open to all.

Also, please note that amazon has no tax and free shipping. I have to add 7% to apple's price for tax, although they do have free shipping. With that break, amazon beats apple's education discount for price delivered to my desk.

Apple better get on the stick. They're missing some profit here...what kind of corporation are they? Their stockholders better get after them.

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stens wrote:
... Apple better get on the stick. They're missing some profit here...what kind of corporation are they? Their stockholders better get after them.

OK RC, your challenge has been met. Several examples were given to show how one can pay below retail for a Mac.

What do we win? I'll take what's behind door number 2. Actually, I think we'd all settle for you admitting that you need to do a bit more fact checking before posting. Better yet, staying away would be the grand prize, IMHO.

For those that missed it, my last sentence was sarcasm. I bought the iMac from amazon because of the price breaks, both tax and rebate; and because I've always had good experiences with them, whether I bought books, tools, or electronics. I certainly hope apple keeps relationships with independent resellers, especially some of my favorite ones, with whom I have had excellent experiences.

Competition is good overall. If all apple's are sold via the apple store, then some "internal" competition would be lost, which would, I think, be unfortunate. It seems like apple is expanding the resellers, at least in terms of the mass marketers. They're being pretty cautious about it, though.