I wonder how Windows fanatics are going to spin this one.

"Apple less doomed by the minute; Apple doomed".

How many MacMini owners are going to moan and whine on this site when Apple doesn't include a free upgrade to 10.4 with their newly purchased machines? If past history is any indicator, a LOT.

Should they? Not my call.

We all have to buy it sometime.

People will always whine about not getting a free upgrade if they purchased their machine recently. It happened with 10.2 and 10.3.

Have to remember, Apple's a business and is there to make money, not be a charity. Release the mac mini, allow users 2-3 months to get used to it, and then release another OS version for them to buy. You have to give customers a reason for return business.

Wait till unsuspecting newbies to the Mac platform try to cram Tiger into their shinny new Mac mini. With the standard 256MB memory, Tiger will bring their shinny new toy to a standstill. Check the facts:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=945

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RealityCheck wrote:
Wait till unsuspecting newbies to the Mac platform try to cram Tiger into their shinny new Mac mini. With the standard 256MB memory, Tiger will bring their shinny new toy to a standstill. Check the facts:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=945

Hmm, I can't seem to find that "fact" anywhere in that link. I see the part where future machines will have better hardware and that future software will work better with better hardware.

As SHOCKING as those facts are, I didn't see anything about Tiger not being able to work with a Mac mini.

Quote

RealityCheck wrote:
Wait till unsuspecting newbies to the Mac platform try to cram Tiger into their shinny new Mac mini. With the standard 256MB memory, Tiger will bring their shinny new toy to a standstill. Check the facts:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=945

Must be a slow day in "RealityCheck" land.

According to the article, Apple insiders said for Tiger and iLife a memory upgrade is "much needed." This is corporate speak for your machine will be total dog unless you upgrade.

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RealityCheck wrote:
According to the article, Apple insiders said for Tiger and iLife a memory upgrade is "much needed." This is corporate speak for your machine will be total dog unless you upgrade.

I kind of figured they're trying to sell their product and make more money. But if you trust what corporate executives say 100% (even those at Apple!) well, more power to you.

That aside, the consumer has SOME responsibility to know what they're buying, you know. If someone went out and bought a Dell with 256 MB of memory I'd bet they wouldn't be thrilled with that performance either. At some point you have to blame the comsumer for looking at the fact that they can double their RAM for $75 and saying "Nah...I'm not gonna be doing that."

Sorry, RC, but "sources" via Apple Insider isn't exactly official Apple corporate policy. Of course if you have an "Apple is Evil" mindset, you must work with whatever sources are available.

But thanks for sharing a new Mac mini feature with us. I didn't realize that the Mac mini could climb awkwardly. Or did you mean "shiny" instead of "shinny?"

"Wait till unsuspecting newbies to the Mac platform try to cram Tiger into their shinny new Mac mini.
With the standard 256MB memory, Tiger will bring their shinny new toy to a standstill. Check the
facts:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=945"

I guess you're the one that should check the facts, because the article says Tiger doesn't require any more than the standard 256MB of RAM. Infact, it only says that more RAM is required for the SMOOTHEST POSSIBLE user experience. So Tiger will run quite easily and usably with 256MBs of RAM, just not as nicely as it possibly can. Once again you ask us to check imaginary facts.

There's an awful lot of folks running older hardware who are waiting to upgrade because they see no need to spend money on hardware now and money on the OS later (yeah, Apple's history is flakey on upgrade pricing). When Tiger's release date is announced and the upgrade policy is established, the mini sales will skyrocket.

Actually, I was wrong. They aren't saying more than 256MB of RAM is required for the smoothest possible experience, they're saying it's required for a smoother experience. Well, whoop de doo. A terrabyte of RAM is required for a smoother Windows XP experience, but that doesn't mean it can't run acceptably on any less.

"According to the article, Apple insiders said for Tiger and iLife a memory upgrade is "much needed."
This is corporate speak for your machine will be total dog unless you upgrade."

Oh no. Are you trying to defend your imaginary "facts" again? I thought you would have learned to post and run, by now.

Nowhere in the article does it quote Apple insiders as saying a memory upgrade for Tiger and iLife is "much needed". It's just not there. It does however quote them as saying a memory upgrade in general is "much needed", which means that their idea of "much needed" is pretty trivial, considering that both iLife and OS X run on 256MB of RAM perfectly well.

See? This is what happens when you try to back up your delusions. You get completely exposed as an incompetent liar who posts articles to support his claims that actually contradict them. Resist the urge, Reality Check. Just resist the urge.

example)
I bought a new car in Aug 2004, I went to the dealer 2 months later and demanded a free upgrade to a 2005.

If you can't pick up on the sarcasm in this post then there is no hope for you. :+)

Quote

RealityCheck wrote:
Wait till unsuspecting newbies to the Mac platform try to cram Tiger into their shinny new Mac mini. With the standard 256MB memory, Tiger will bring their shinny new toy to a standstill. Check the facts:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=945

Check this fact
People who troll Mac sites in order to help us poor Mac users save us from ourselves are losers.
You serve no purpose other than to try to inflate your own flagging sense of self esteem.

Quote

MonkeyT wrote:
There's an awful lot of folks running older hardware who are waiting to upgrade because they see no need to spend money on hardware now and money on the OS later ... When Tiger's release date is announced and the upgrade policy is established, the mini sales will skyrocket.

True. But, I think the opposite is also true.

I saw some stats a while back that were absolutely staggering. I forget the exact percentage now, but IIRC, a significant majority of computer purchasers never "upgrade" their OS.

In other words, if those stats are correct, those who are buying a Mini and are in the target market for the product (ie: new Mac user and a low-end user) than half to 3/4s won't have an interest in upgrading to Tiger. Obviously, that still leaves a large number of people who are going to be upset that they bought the computer only to have the OS outdated rapidly.

That said, I'll bet a lot of them know that Tiger is coming becuase the Mini isn't the first thing that's gotten them interested in Apple ... it's just what finally pushed the purchase. Of course, they're Windows users, so none of them will actually believe that Tiger will ship as promised since they've been "expecting" Longhorn for half a decade now.

The people, IMO, who will be upset are current Mac users (or returning Mac users) who have replaced an older machine. Probably half of them know that Tiger is coming and figure they'll have to pay for it ... but they'll whine anyway just cuz they like to complain.

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dux5 wrote:

I saw some stats a while back that were absolutely staggering. I forget the exact percentage now, but IIRC, a significant majority of computer purchasers never "upgrade" their OS.

I believe that. I think that for many people, this habit can be traced back to early versions of windows.

My mother is fearful of every upgrading anything on her computer because during that time period, an upgrade often meant that a printer or a scanner would no longer work with a newer OS. This was usually the fault of the device makers not updating drivers, but the result was that an OS upgrade meant weeks of trying to get everything to work right again.

That doesn't happen too much anymore (with Macs OR with Windows) but that was a hard learned lesson that's hard to un-learn.

Not wanting to pay the price to upgrade is one reason, but I think "fear of changing anything" on a computer is still a big reason, even if it's not a problem any more.

Quote

RealityCheck wrote:
Wait till unsuspecting newbies to the Mac platform try to cram Tiger into their shinny new Mac mini. With the standard 256MB memory, Tiger will bring their shinny new toy to a standstill. Check the facts:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=945

Hmmm...

Here are Microsoft's Longhorn hardware recommendations:

Desktop CPU: 3 GHz Intel Pentium 4 processor with HyperThreading Technology 530 (or higher) or 3 GHz Intel Xeon processor with 2 MB L2 cache, or AMD Athlon 64, Sempron, or Opteron 100, 200, or 800 processor, single or dual-core versions.

Mobile CPU: 1.86 GHz Intel Pentium M processor 750 (or higher), or AMD Turion 64 Mobile Technology, Mobile Sempron, or Mobile Athlon 64 processor.

RAM: 512 MB of RAM or more, all platforms.

Source: http://winsupersite.com/showcase/longhorn_preview_2005.asp (ummmm... Paul Thurrott's site!)

Wow. I don't see Dell's $399 desktop machine having a prayer at running the next generation of Microsoft's OS.

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Intruder wrote:
Wow. I don't see Dell's $399 desktop machine having a prayer at running the next generation of Microsoft's OS.

Yeah, but by the time Longhorn actually ships, a computer with those specs will be dirt cheap. Of course, we'll also all be Longdead!

Retailers love computers with 256 memory as they can sell upgrades. Dell, not being sold in stores, uses their 256 as SHARED memory - don't they RC? By now even RC knows that he can buy a Mac with 256 and then get a gig stick from a 3rd party supplier - and a putty knife if he gets a Mac mini.

Tiger will also work on a lot of older Macs where Longhorn will need some hefty investments in hardware for many. The mass of code in Longhorn will probably result in two versions - pro and home - just so it can run on the lower priced computers. Because Tiger doesn't have all the slop Longhorn will have Mac users can use the full version.

When you buy Tiger you will get the full OS - not an upgrade. How will MS handle that? Probably with an upgrade that costs more than Tigers probable $129 price for the full version.

Personally I have to buy the Family Pack when tiger comes out as I now have 5 Macs that will get moved up - the oldest ones being a 667 PB and a 500 iBook. That's about $50 per computer (less educational discount). Is MS going to do anything like that, or are they still back in the 3.1 days?

Retailers love computers with 256 memory as they can sell upgrades. Dell, not being sold in stores, uses their 256 as SHARED memory - don't they RC? By now even RC knows that he can buy a Mac with 256 and then get a gig stick from a 3rd party supplier - and a putty knife if he gets a Mac mini.

Tiger will also work on a lot of older Macs where Longhorn will need some hefty investments in hardware for many. The mass of code in Longhorn will probably result in two versions - pro and home - just so it can run on the lower priced computers. Because Tiger doesn't have all the slop Longhorn will have Mac users can use the full version.

When you buy Tiger you will get the full OS - not an upgrade. How will MS handle that? Probably with an upgrade that costs more than Tigers probable $129 price for the full version.

Personally I have to buy the Family Pack when tiger comes out as I now have 5 Macs that will get moved up - the oldest ones being a 667 PB and a 500 iBook. That's about $50 per computer (less educational discount). Is MS going to do anything like that, or are they still back in the 3.1 days?

I am going to make the much-trumpeted SWITCH to Apple (back to Apple, but my last Apple, the IIe I got in 1984 or so, was such a long time ago...) this year, and am going to get a Powerbook for me and a mini for my daughter, and I am waiting until after Tiger and the WWDC just to make sure there aren't new models coming out right after I buy... my Dell laptop has somehow picked up the vibes, though. I had a RAM card go bad and am now suddenly having other various BSODs as well. It's like my computer is threatening to go bad and force me to buy right before better macs come out, just to spite me.

For the Guest waiting to switch. MacRumors has a nice buyers guide that gives a rough estimate of when new macs may come out. Very handy:
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

At this rate they'll be breaking 5% world-wide market share!!!!!!!!!!!